Description
Item Description
Bryant Ridge Auction Company is pleased to present this incredible historical Remington produced Mle1907/15 in 8mm Lebel (8x50r), with matching bayonet, today for a penny start auction!
SPECIFICATIONS:
Manufacturer: Remington
Model: Mle 1907/15
Date of Manufacture: 1915
Caliber: 8mm Lebel (8x50r)
Finish: Blued
Barrel Length: 32"
Optics/Sights: Traditional Front Blade Sight, Graduated Rear Leaf Sight
Stock/Grips: Wood
Action: Bolt
Markings: Standard
Bryant Ridge's Analysis:
A contract was established by French Army General Désaleux, who was in charge of the Army's Ordnance Section, with Remington Arms and Ammunition Company which was based in Ilion, New York, USA on May 28, 1915 for an unknown quantity of Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 (Rifle of Infantry Model 1907-1915) and Épée-Baïonnette Modèle 1886 Modifié 1915 (Sword Bayonet Model 1886 Modified 1915) which was believed to be no more than 200,000 or 250,000 rifles and bayonets. Any documents or records are just missing at this time to answer this question as to how many were to be manufactured by them. The known price for each firearm and bayonet for this contract was to amount $30.00.
The French military sent three military inspecting officers, Captains Bernard, Chezeaud and Larfouilloux to Remington Arms in either very late summer or early fall of 1915 to oversee and help in the facilitation during the production of these firearms. These men brought with them at least 50 sample arms made by one of the three French National Armories, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault, commonly called as MAC to use to help verify parts interchangeability of these firearms with those as made in France at its armories.
One of the biggest challenges was setting up a complete armory to produce these firearms as they had to build one from scratch at Bridgeport, Connecticut as they had other firearm contracts from other nations such as Russia and the United Kingdom for production of firearms for them. Installation of machines began in August of 1915 and was completed by November of 1915, production soon began after that. 14 rifles were presented to the inspecting officers on April 21, 1916 and found 4 of them had barrels that were installed incorrectly. 10 more were inspected on May 6th and these were found with front sights that were miss-aligned or incorrect placed on the barrel. All rifles that had been built up to this point had to re-work by Remington.
Here is where the story gets a bit complicated and as to why these firearms were not delivered to France. Speculations to the actual cause for the rejection and subsequent cancellation of the contract run the gamut on the internet and in some books. Some say the war ended before they could be fully shipped, which we know now as not true; some say they had dimensional issues with the chambers, were rejected for this problem as they needed to be re-worked before they were shipped and by the time they did get it right the war ended. There were some problems due to these problems as you will read later but not due to the fact the war had ended before they were corrected. Other theories are that they had poor heat treatment of the receivers which caused cracks in them when fired, simply not true; the French changed the contract to make them into Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 Modifié 1916 (Rifle of Infantry Model 1907-1915 Modified 1916) with the 5 shot extended magazine and the French refused to pay for the conversion. We do know that this could not have been a reason as the development of the 'M.16' was not fully completed until September of 1916, regular production of these did not fully start till November 28, 1916 and by that time, the contract had already been canceled.
The most ridiculous theory on the rejection of these is that the French rejected them due to resentment of the growing influence of the United States, this just doesn't stand up to close scrutiny as at the time the contract was placed the Allies, including the French, were in desperate need of all types of small arms and welcomed all available assistance regardless of the cross Atlantic sentiments of today’s politics.
The main reason that these were not delivered was the inability of Remington Arms Company to meet the contract clauses as set by the French military as they were accustomed to the punctuality, overall reliability and quality of the French armories to produce firearms. The French military had more important tasks to fulfill, notably running a war, so the choice of canceling the contract was an easy task.
They expected an average production of 200 rifles per day with a first delivery of 1,000 units to take place on June 12, 1916 and if that delivery was not fulfilled the contract could be canceled. (This batch was fulfilled and arrived in France, just in time) The next landmark date was August 8, 1916 when 40,700 had to be delivered, if half of that quantity was not available for shipment, the contract could be canceled. It became patently clear that the minimum delivery of 20,350 rifles on August 8th could not be accomplished as only 9,444 had been sent to France to date, so the whole contract was just simply canceled completely. Another factor that also could have led to this cancellation of the order was at this time the Battle of Verdun, which had started on February 21, was taking place which was exhausting a horrific toll of men and material.
The three French National Armories, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC), Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne (MAS) and Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Tulle (MAT), were very busy manufacturing and re-building these and other types firearms for the war effort that simply cancelling the contract was for the best as Remington was not able to keep with its contract obligations and trying to re-work these firearms at those facilities was just too much of a burden.
Of the 9,444 that were actually received by the French military were sent to two of the main French National Armories, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne and Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault where they inspected, serialized, extensively reworked and placed in stores as third class 'reserve weapons'. It was found that the vast majority of the rifles when they were inspected had problems related to them with some having oversize or undersized chambers, bores along with front sights that had been improperly calibrated. It is believed the reason that these rifles had to re-worked was likely due to the fact that Remington’s employees were incapable of understanding the French engineering drawings, which were in milliemes which caused problems during making of these rifles from the engineering plans as sent over by the French and that the person or persons who read the plans interpreted them incorrectly into the English standard units of measurement. The rifles that were reworked by Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne was given 'J' letter prefixes and those at Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault were given 'E' letter prefixes starting in 6,000 serial number range.
The left side of the barrel, top of the bolt handle, bottom of the trigger guard / magazine and left side of the butt of the stock were marked with these letter prefixes and numbers assigned to them. The letters can be found in two types of fonts, one is the typical French lettering font as used on their manufactured firearms and other as simple block lettering as used on firearms made by private contract companies such as Établissement Delaunay-Belleville. The right side of the butt of the stock was marked with a round cartouche called in French as a roundel which showed what year (6 o'clock), month (12 o'clock), who manufactured it (8 o'clock), who the Directeur de Manufacture (Director of Manufacture) (4 o'clock) and Contrôleur Généraux Principaux (Final Arms Inspector) (9 o'clock) when the rifle was accepted for service in the military by the Comité de la Réception (Reception Committee). In the center of the cartouche were the letters MA which stood for Manufacture d'Armes. As these were made outside of the French main armories the only information placed in the cartouche was the month, year and which armory that made it in the center, no other coded letters were used on the cartouche.
The vast majority of these rifles were sold after the war to the American public through the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM); the predecessor of today’s Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) and never had type of prefix letter and or number placed on them. Some of these were also sold to movie gun rental companies such as Stembridge Gun Movie Rentals which had an inventory number placed on either the right side of the receiver and / or the barrel. The inventory number could also be found on the wooden stock on the underside of the wrist area and some even had numbers place on the left or right side of the stock.
Contrary to popular belief none of the rifles were ever brought over by the American 'Doughboys' when they came to France in 1917 and 1918 and they were also not used or issued to either the 92nd and 93rd 'Colored' American Expeditionary Forces Divisions which were attached to the French Army. Also no other French Berthier rifle, carbines or musketoons models were ever built or modified by Remington Arms.
Contents:
This incredible historical rifle ships with the bayonet photographed above.
Return Policy:
We gladly offer a 3 day unfired inspection policy from the time that the firearm is delivered to your FFL. Refunds are available for all qualifying orders.
Model: Mle 1907/15
Date of Manufacture: 1915
Caliber: 8mm Lebel (8x50r)
Finish: Blued
Barrel Length: 32"
Optics/Sights: Traditional Front Blade Sight, Graduated Rear Leaf Sight
Stock/Grips: Wood
Action: Bolt
Markings: Standard
Bryant Ridge's Analysis:
A contract was established by French Army General Désaleux, who was in charge of the Army's Ordnance Section, with Remington Arms and Ammunition Company which was based in Ilion, New York, USA on May 28, 1915 for an unknown quantity of Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 (Rifle of Infantry Model 1907-1915) and Épée-Baïonnette Modèle 1886 Modifié 1915 (Sword Bayonet Model 1886 Modified 1915) which was believed to be no more than 200,000 or 250,000 rifles and bayonets. Any documents or records are just missing at this time to answer this question as to how many were to be manufactured by them. The known price for each firearm and bayonet for this contract was to amount $30.00.
The French military sent three military inspecting officers, Captains Bernard, Chezeaud and Larfouilloux to Remington Arms in either very late summer or early fall of 1915 to oversee and help in the facilitation during the production of these firearms. These men brought with them at least 50 sample arms made by one of the three French National Armories, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault, commonly called as MAC to use to help verify parts interchangeability of these firearms with those as made in France at its armories.
One of the biggest challenges was setting up a complete armory to produce these firearms as they had to build one from scratch at Bridgeport, Connecticut as they had other firearm contracts from other nations such as Russia and the United Kingdom for production of firearms for them. Installation of machines began in August of 1915 and was completed by November of 1915, production soon began after that. 14 rifles were presented to the inspecting officers on April 21, 1916 and found 4 of them had barrels that were installed incorrectly. 10 more were inspected on May 6th and these were found with front sights that were miss-aligned or incorrect placed on the barrel. All rifles that had been built up to this point had to re-work by Remington.
Here is where the story gets a bit complicated and as to why these firearms were not delivered to France. Speculations to the actual cause for the rejection and subsequent cancellation of the contract run the gamut on the internet and in some books. Some say the war ended before they could be fully shipped, which we know now as not true; some say they had dimensional issues with the chambers, were rejected for this problem as they needed to be re-worked before they were shipped and by the time they did get it right the war ended. There were some problems due to these problems as you will read later but not due to the fact the war had ended before they were corrected. Other theories are that they had poor heat treatment of the receivers which caused cracks in them when fired, simply not true; the French changed the contract to make them into Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 Modifié 1916 (Rifle of Infantry Model 1907-1915 Modified 1916) with the 5 shot extended magazine and the French refused to pay for the conversion. We do know that this could not have been a reason as the development of the 'M.16' was not fully completed until September of 1916, regular production of these did not fully start till November 28, 1916 and by that time, the contract had already been canceled.
The most ridiculous theory on the rejection of these is that the French rejected them due to resentment of the growing influence of the United States, this just doesn't stand up to close scrutiny as at the time the contract was placed the Allies, including the French, were in desperate need of all types of small arms and welcomed all available assistance regardless of the cross Atlantic sentiments of today’s politics.
The main reason that these were not delivered was the inability of Remington Arms Company to meet the contract clauses as set by the French military as they were accustomed to the punctuality, overall reliability and quality of the French armories to produce firearms. The French military had more important tasks to fulfill, notably running a war, so the choice of canceling the contract was an easy task.
They expected an average production of 200 rifles per day with a first delivery of 1,000 units to take place on June 12, 1916 and if that delivery was not fulfilled the contract could be canceled. (This batch was fulfilled and arrived in France, just in time) The next landmark date was August 8, 1916 when 40,700 had to be delivered, if half of that quantity was not available for shipment, the contract could be canceled. It became patently clear that the minimum delivery of 20,350 rifles on August 8th could not be accomplished as only 9,444 had been sent to France to date, so the whole contract was just simply canceled completely. Another factor that also could have led to this cancellation of the order was at this time the Battle of Verdun, which had started on February 21, was taking place which was exhausting a horrific toll of men and material.
The three French National Armories, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC), Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne (MAS) and Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Tulle (MAT), were very busy manufacturing and re-building these and other types firearms for the war effort that simply cancelling the contract was for the best as Remington was not able to keep with its contract obligations and trying to re-work these firearms at those facilities was just too much of a burden.
Of the 9,444 that were actually received by the French military were sent to two of the main French National Armories, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne and Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault where they inspected, serialized, extensively reworked and placed in stores as third class 'reserve weapons'. It was found that the vast majority of the rifles when they were inspected had problems related to them with some having oversize or undersized chambers, bores along with front sights that had been improperly calibrated. It is believed the reason that these rifles had to re-worked was likely due to the fact that Remington’s employees were incapable of understanding the French engineering drawings, which were in milliemes which caused problems during making of these rifles from the engineering plans as sent over by the French and that the person or persons who read the plans interpreted them incorrectly into the English standard units of measurement. The rifles that were reworked by Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne was given 'J' letter prefixes and those at Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault were given 'E' letter prefixes starting in 6,000 serial number range.
The left side of the barrel, top of the bolt handle, bottom of the trigger guard / magazine and left side of the butt of the stock were marked with these letter prefixes and numbers assigned to them. The letters can be found in two types of fonts, one is the typical French lettering font as used on their manufactured firearms and other as simple block lettering as used on firearms made by private contract companies such as Établissement Delaunay-Belleville. The right side of the butt of the stock was marked with a round cartouche called in French as a roundel which showed what year (6 o'clock), month (12 o'clock), who manufactured it (8 o'clock), who the Directeur de Manufacture (Director of Manufacture) (4 o'clock) and Contrôleur Généraux Principaux (Final Arms Inspector) (9 o'clock) when the rifle was accepted for service in the military by the Comité de la Réception (Reception Committee). In the center of the cartouche were the letters MA which stood for Manufacture d'Armes. As these were made outside of the French main armories the only information placed in the cartouche was the month, year and which armory that made it in the center, no other coded letters were used on the cartouche.
The vast majority of these rifles were sold after the war to the American public through the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM); the predecessor of today’s Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) and never had type of prefix letter and or number placed on them. Some of these were also sold to movie gun rental companies such as Stembridge Gun Movie Rentals which had an inventory number placed on either the right side of the receiver and / or the barrel. The inventory number could also be found on the wooden stock on the underside of the wrist area and some even had numbers place on the left or right side of the stock.
Contrary to popular belief none of the rifles were ever brought over by the American 'Doughboys' when they came to France in 1917 and 1918 and they were also not used or issued to either the 92nd and 93rd 'Colored' American Expeditionary Forces Divisions which were attached to the French Army. Also no other French Berthier rifle, carbines or musketoons models were ever built or modified by Remington Arms.
Contents:
This incredible historical rifle ships with the bayonet photographed above.
Return Policy:
We gladly offer a 3 day unfired inspection policy from the time that the firearm is delivered to your FFL. Refunds are available for all qualifying orders.
Shipping Details
Handgun Standard Shipping $50.00
Long Gun Standard Shipping $65.00
We strive to ship orders within the close of the following business day after payment and documentation is received.
Payment Details
We accept all forms of Payment including Personal Check, Business Check, PO Money Orders, Certified Check, Etc.
Please note we place a 7 business day hold on shipment, for all non-certified payments.
Return Policy
We gladly offer a 3 day unfired inspection policy from the time that the firearm is delivered to your FFL. Refunds are available for all qualifying orders.
Additional Details
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From a small town hobby, to a leader in the investment and collector grade firearms industry. Bryant Ridge Firearms is here to offer the best in quality and customer service when you are looking to unload your collector grade firearm collection.
